Shaykh Salman al-’Awdah observed: “What good is it to get rid of a fascist regime with secular trappings only to replace it with a fascist regime with Islamic trappings?” This is the mentality that we must challenge. We must present a viable Islamic option to secular democracy, which is what America is offering, and “religious” authoritarianism, which certain revolutionary, utopian groups like Hizb at-Tahrir, Jama’at al-Jihad, Qaeda, and others have presented.

I don’t know if you have visited or lived in the Middle East, but I assure you that if a pure Islamic regime was to be installed in half of the Muslim lands, the first people to rebel — before anyone else — would be these same Muslims. We can’t just flick a political switch and have entire societies change.
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The middle east is not the only place in the world with a Muslim majority. Central Asia has Muslims (I’m not sure, but I think even more Muslims than in the Middle East) and they practice Islam more faithfully than alot of Arabs do. I’m a Syrian and as far as I have seen, today the Arab world is being divided into two scenes, those practicing Islam rigorously and those who became completely secular. The secularists are going around preaching a Western style democracy, so now the million dollar question is, what do the practicing Muslims want to do? Lock themselves up in their mosques expecting things to change on their own and that for Allah it is enough you’re growing a beard and praying your sunnah to establish Islamic rule or do they want to work for it and after you do the work THEN pray Allah will give you good results?

Amir said:———————————–
In short, political systems don’t change people, people change their systems.
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Actually that’s half the truth only. I have written a couple of articles on that subject.

Basically, man’s actions are the results of his thoughts and the concepts he holds. Man’s concepts are the result of information he gathered. This information could be from school, parenting, friends, tv, the whole society and culture he lives in. Now what has most effect on these things? Who decides what education curriculem the school teaches? Who can control what is being put on TV, what is being sold in the market, what the whole society looks like; the whole environment that our children grow in. And the environment would have a large effect on people. It is what the system of rule is implementing, what it is allowing and what it is forbidding and what it is forcing on the people that molds the environment and the society with it. This is why we work our way from the top to the bottom and not the other way around. If you have control of the government you can dictate what the children learn at school, whether alcohol will be tolerated, gambeling, pornography, the decency in clothings, almost everything that molds people’s minds.

The only time people change a system is when that system is untolerably oppresive.

Amir said:———————-
The reason why the Muslims are in such a pitiful, disgraced, debased and humiliated state right now is not because of our relationship with the state, our relationship with the Jews, or our relationship with any of the other things that Muslims like to blame our condition on. The sole and only reason for our state is that we, as a community, abandoned our relationship with Allah and became corrupted and unjust. It is the sunnah of Allah, as Ibn Taymeeyah mentioned, that He prefers the just non-Muslim state to the unjust Muslim state, and this is why Allah has given the non-Muslims an exalted position in this world. If we want to return to something of our previous position, then the only way that this can be achieved is by fixing up this relationship with Allah; by practicing our religion, fearing Allah and doing what is required. This is why the path to reform — politically and socially — is to practice our religion. If we can just do that, then everything else will take care of itself.
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Ibn Taymiyyah also said: “This is why those who are in authority are of two groups: the scholars and the rulers. If they are upright, the people will be upright; if they are corrupt, the people will be corrupt.”

I am not attacking the concept that we should fix our relationship with Allah. Ofcourse not, this is an important part of Islam, no doubt about it. What I am not agreeing with is the concept that this fixing of relationship ONLY entails your private salah and siaam and charity and nothing outside the confines of your own private relationship with Allah. Akhi, don’t expect to pass your engineering exam by praying every day. You have to study engineering to pass, Allah wont do it for you just because you prayed. Likewise, don’t expect your business to be successful if all you do is fast every other day and leave the management of the business to Allah, he wont do it for you. Likewise, don’t expect Islam to be establish as a political entity if all what you do is grow your beard and roll up your trousers. Allah wont do it for you akhi. When you want to build a mosque, you roll up your sleaves and start picking up stones, you don’t sit down and pray. Your work should be related to your aim, if our aim is to establish Islam as a political entity, then we have to work towards it and not expect that our prayers will be sufficient. Allah said in hadeeth qudsi, “work my servant and I will work with you”.

Baybers said:——————————
this is actually a profoundly secular statement. That their is a distinction between personal worship and politics. This is a deeply flawed understanding of the prophetic tradition, where internal and personal development has EVERYTHING to do with one’s outward expression in society.
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I am talking about the method of implementing something. When I want to build a mosque and tell the people “lets stop praying for a minute and start mixing concrete” that does not make me a secular, that makes me realistic and the work in itself is a ibaada and the aim we’re trying to reach is of the nobelist. I am neither saying we should completely abandon prayer, nor am I saying that political action on its own without prayer will be our salvation. I am saying that there is a middle ground, where we neither go on one side of the wall nor the other side. It is not either absolute prayer or secularism.

wassalamu alaikum

this is actually a profoundly secular statement. That their is a distinction between personal worship and politics. This is a deeply flawed understanding of the prophetic tradition, where internal and personal development has EVERYTHING to do with one’s outward expression in society.

You’re suggesting that when the Muslims are reformed the systems of governance will be reformed? Akhi, may I remind you that those systems are tyrannies and even at this very moment, not a single Arab or Muslimcountry lives under a government that the people want. So whether they want Islam, communism, facism, macdonaldism, nothing is going to happen until political action is taken against those tyrannical governments. Am I wrong?

At some point, tyrannical governments will be vanquished. The question is, however, as to whether this is an end in itself that we should work towards or whether we should focus our efforts elsewhere and political reform will be the natural consequence of that?

I don’t know if you have visited or lived in the Middle East, but I assure you that if a pure Islamic regime was to be installed in half of the Muslim lands, the first people to rebel — before anyone else — would be these same Muslims. We can’t just flick a political switch and have entire societies change.

In short, political systems don’t change people, people change their systems.

Spiritual awakening amonst the Muslim will not magically install new regimes, an action should be taken and that action is not growing a beard and rolling up your trousers. These things are ibadaat that you do between you and Allah. As for siasaat (politics) this is done for the benefit of our community and should be also worked on and never ignored for living a life of complete ibadaat.

The reason why the Muslims are in such a pitiful, disgraced, debased and humiliated state right now is not because of our relationship with the state, our relationship with the Jews, or our relationship with any of the other things that Muslims like to blame our condition on. The sole and only reason for our state is that we, as a community, abandoned our relationship with Allah and became corrupted and unjust. It is the sunnah of Allah, as Ibn Taymeeyah mentioned, that He prefers the just non-Muslim state to the unjust Muslim state, and this is why Allah has given the non-Muslims an exalted position in this world. If we want to return to something of our previous position, then the only way that this can be achieved is by fixing up this relationship with Allah; by practicing our religion, fearing Allah and doing what is required. This is why the path to reform — politically and socially — is to practice our religion. If we can just do that, then everything else will take care of itself.

First of all, let me say MASHALLAH! Mashallah tabarakallah! A wonderful peace of work akhi mashallah! You have commented on every point. While I’m reading I come up with an argument in my head and then what do you know, the next sentence answers it! subhanAllah.

There is one question that you yourself asked but didn’t give a satisfing answer to. You said;
“why must you talk about democracy — a foreign, infidel-invented political system — when you have Islam?”
This question you didn’t clearly answer. Because in the end, you showed that “Islamic democracy” is really just Islam, as there is the shura, and all the elements in the Islamic political arena. So why do you insist on calling it democracy or even Islamic ‘democracy’? Why not call it Islam or (as Islamic rule is known by definition) khilafah? I’m not trying to nit-pick on small issues like terminologies, it is just that there ARE Muslims who advocate the secular democracy and they too call it simply ‘democracy’. Even the socialist movements call themselves democracies. I just think, as Muslims, we should just say “I want to live under the shade of a khaleefah”. and that’s that.

Another thing I would like to comment on is your last paragraph. You said;
“Ultimately, of course, the most pressing issue facing the Muslims are not political but spiritual. The institutions and systems of governance in our societies will be reformed only when the Muslims who live under them are reformed. The Islamic state is the natural consequence of a critical mass of Muslim constituents choosing to live their lives according to Islam, rather than something than be explicitly engineered and constructed.”

You’re suggesting that when the Muslims are reformed the systems of governance will be reformed? Akhi, may I remind you that those systems are tyrannies and even at this very moment, not a single Arab or Muslimcountry lives under a government that the people want. So whether they want Islam, communism, facism, macdonaldism, nothing is going to happen until political action is taken against those tyrannical governments. Am I wrong? Spiritual awakening amonst the Muslim will not magically install new regimes, an action should be taken and that action is not growing a beard and rolling up your trousers. These things are ibadaat that you do between you and Allah. As for siasaat (politics) this is done for the benefit of our community and should be also worked on and never ignored for living a life of complete ibadaat.

wassalamu alaikum.