Of course there are no one-to-one relationships here and no single causal factors – but issues of economic disadvantage do seem to be pervasive in these cases.

But how economically disadvantaged are youths that are running around in the latest sneakers, holding the latest mobile phones, and driving relatively expensive cars or cars that have been “hotted up” at some expense to the owner? They are certainly not poor by the standards of the countries their parents hail from and I would suggest that they are not even poor by Australian standards.

As for the topic at hand I find it far too simplistic to be implying that these guys are like this because they listen to too much DMX or Tupac.

Also from the videos posted above, it seems that there are only a few dominant males in the pack and the rest just follow the leader.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/f.....ing-p1.php

Note how all the participants are appropriately Islamicly dressed, and are courteous to other road users.

The very best that one can do is retrospective cohort analysis between migrant communities in different parts of the world and either ignore or try to adjust for the vast differences in the societies.

So much of the scholarly work is little more (or even less) than my earlier assertion.

Anther point is to what extent is social position itself a marker of a biological or behavioural pattern and therefore to what extent can we modify it. As a Muslim I believe that Allah (SWT) religion is accessible to all regardless of intelligence or social position (otherwise it would not be merciful) and that a way of dressing, behaving and mixing with people is the primary way that determines our behaviour in other spheres for better or worse.

The famous Prophetic(PBUH) hadith that is loosely translated, that one is on the religion of ones friends, also supports this view.

So despite being poor and poorly educated and migrants and living in ugly housing it is my assertion that it is primarily this evolved tribal culture that is the key ingredient for criminality. That is why it exists in Frankston, in Macquire fields, Brixton and south central LA.

That is also why they do not occur in other very poor but socially conservative areas (although these are rapidly vanishing)

There is no empirical evidence that I know of, either way. Do you?

There seems to be quite a bit of academic work on various related topics to do with children of migrants, delinquancy and criminality (see a sample below). From what I can glean, ‘culture’ in the traditional sense seems to play no statistically significant role in criminality. (That it comes to be seen as significant speaks to problems of insularity of the ‘dominant’ community.) But you’re obviously not talking about ‘culture’ in this sense.

I suspect you’re mixing together some different things in referring to ‘culture.’ African American music, clothing and mannerisms are one thing, while problems relating to family life, unemployment and so on are another. The first is, to my mind, an effect rather than a cause. It enters into the ‘imaginary realm’ (as some sociologists like to call it) as a cognitive coping response to material conditions. The second set of variables are better thought of as ‘material’ in their nature, and for my money have a more immediately causal role.

The broader causal context into which that fits, I think, is probably related to social position. Anecdotally, in the UK, we see problems with some Pakistani youth – but not in Australia. Note the difference in social position: in the UK, first-generation migrant Pakistani families were generally poor, working class; first-generation migrant Pakistani families in Australia were generally middle class. In Australia, we see problems for some second-generation Lebanese kids – again, note that their parents hailed from relatively poor, working class backgrounds. (Note also that the Macquarie Fields riots occurred in Macquarie Fields, and the Redfern riots occurred in Refern – not St.Ives, Pymble or Vaucluse.) Of course there are no one-to-one relationships here and no single causal factors – but issues of economic disadvantage do seem to be pervasive in these cases.

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Aside: a few interesting things:

Freilich, J.D. et.al. (eds). 2002. Migration, Culture Conflict and Crime. Ashgate.

Killias, M. 1989. “Criminality among Second-Generation Immigrants in Western Europe: A Review of the Evidence”, Criminal Justice Review, vol. 14, no. 1, pp. 13-42.

Junger, M. et.al. 1997. “The Interethnic Generalizability of Social Control Theory”, Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency, 34(1): 79-112.

Junger-Tas, J. 2001. “Ethnic Minorities, Social Integration and Crime”, European Journal of Criminal Policy and Research, 9: 5-29.

- The government should reintroduce compulsory National Service. Upon turning 18, all Australian male citizens should have to join the military and do extensive community service such as cleaning streets, wiping graffiti of the wall, working with the fire brigade etc…

I would assume this would give a really good boost to social cohesion and integration of minority groups, as you will be having Australians of different backgrounds, skin colours and religions working side by side.

Yes you are correct,

Amir and I were hoping to start a debate on the causes and solutions for this problem. That required taking certain provocative positions in the interest of stimulating discussion. But I do contend that the immediate solution here is law enforcement and not anything useful can be contributed by the Muslim community. So people can keep there stolen library books and be safe from capital punishment

I also contend that criminality is a necessary outcome from such a culture. The evidence is analogy. As a Muslim I believe that a certain praxis, thought, action and dress allows and encourages me to behave in a way that is pleasing to God. The opposite must also therefore be true, that constant exposure to hyer-sexualised lyrics, dress, behavior, celebrating criminality must lead inevitably to criminality.

There is no empirical evidence that I know of, either way. Do you?

Also, I’m not sure that the parents are mostly involved in criminality themselves. From what I have seen firsthand, most of the parents of these kids are either disinterested, have given up and blame the society, or they simply tolerate the wayward behaviour of their boys provided they don’t bring up a non-Muslim girl at the end of the day.