It’s interesting to contrast Dutch government reactions to two very different examples of personal choice.
On the one hand, we have Muslim women who decide to wear a veil. The Dutch authorities seem to disapprove of this, since they are looking at legislation to prevent women from covering their faces in public. Apparently, it’s very offensive to Dutch sensibilities for a woman to dress in this manner.
Then, on the other hand, we have homosexual men who, rather than wear a particular item of clothing, decide to have sex in public places instead. This is not so offensive to Dutch sensibilities and so the authorities have recently decided to legalise public sex in Amsterdam’s Vondelpark (whilst concurrently ruling that dogs must now be kept on a leash in the same park).
In Amsterdam’s Vondelpark, owners of dogs let off the leash can be fined, but sex will shortly be permitted. “Why should we try to maintain something that is actually impossible to maintain, which also causes little bother for others and for a certain group actually signifies much pleasure?” says Paul van Grieken, the responsible Alderman in the Oud-Zuid district of Amsterdam.
But couldn’t roughly the same thing be said about the veil? It’s hardly bothering anyone to ride on public transport or walk in the same street as a veiled (or unveiled) woman.
18 comments ↓
I suspect the ancient Sodomites would blush if they saw the Dutch.
Allowing these women to clothe themselves in the manner they want is submitting to Izlam Amir. This cannot be allowed to happen in the Western World. We cannot allow the beacon of freedom and enlightenment, a product of our Judeo-Christian heritage to subsumed by the Muzlim menace of the headscarfe.
To even compare it to allowing homosexuals to express their love and devotion to each other out in the open, is perverse. This is an issue of freedom of conscience. How can you compare it to that barbaric instrument of repression? There is no contradiction or inconsistency where this is concerned.
Signed,
Reasonable Dutch Housewife Sick of These Pesky Muslims
No doubt the Dutch government will provide secluded places in parks where people can wear niqabs if there is wufficient public demand.
http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=3479#comment-86612
I think that all the worthwhile discussion on this topic is taking place on catalaxy files
Yes, there is some fascinating discussion going on over there..
There was a case recently where some British tourists visiting Amsterdam noticed two guys having sex on a park bench. They were disgusted (they had kids with them) so they went looking for the police. Two Dutch coppers were walking past so the tourists grabbed them and explained the situation. “Officers, there are two men in the park and they are having sex in public,” said one of the tourists. “Please, go over there and do something about it. We’re really offended by this.”
The Dutch policemen were disgusted. They looked at each other and one said to the tourists. “This IS outrageous and very, very offensive. We can’t have things like this going on in Holland,” he said.
And so they arrested the tourists.
No offense guys, but why do Muslims flock to Holland when they damn well know what type of society they are?
It’s like a Westerner going to Kuwait and bitching about how backward the society is.
If they think it’s morally corrupt, then here’s a tip: DON’T MOVE THERE.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, is it? But unfortunately, many Muslims have a supremicist mentality where they believe they are superior to others and are entitled to do whatever they want without any consequence.
I’m sorry if this seems harsh, but I don’t like how most Muslims are naive like this.
“No doubt the Dutch government will provide secluded places in parks where people can wear niqabs if there is wufficient public demand.”
Or they can move to a Muslim country where they are free to wear their niqabs, instead of flocking to a Western country where niqabs are alien to the host culture. I think that’s a better idea, but that would mean having to go back to a failed Muslim society.
I think Steve Edwards makes a good point on Catallaxy about eating sh*t out of a bag but I think they already do that in Holland anyway? Anyone ate Dutch food before?
When the Muslims start jumping up and down about what happens to men caught together behind closed doors right througout the Muslim world, perhaps then we might start listening to their concerns about the “freedom” of covering your face and head in western societies while in public. Until then, if they find Holland so oppressive they can quite freely go back whence they came
What I think is really funny about this is that I will never believe it unless I see it for myself. But I don’t ever want to see it and will probably avoid ever going to Holland just in case I accidentally see it.
Conundrum.
But for fun I will have this Islamified.
why don’t you take your own advice, ass-wipe
You dickheads dont understand most of the muslims come from Holland. Thats there country morans.
We seem to be confused by the conflicting messages, Mr Greenfield. We here are told, endlessly, about how the Western World is a beacon for invididual liberty, Freedon of Expression and Conscience and the other collection of slogans that seem to be completely thrown out the window whenever an observant Muslim can be found.
Imagine our shock when we hear about Holland wanting to ban a piece of cloth, but homosexuals are allowed the freedom to bugger each other in public without censure. Permit us a little bewilderment at this particularly baffling situation.
Consistency was never the West’s strong point, was it?
Amir,
Awesome stuff as usual. Although a little context on a couple of points are well worth considering:
The Dutch cannot (constitutionally) put a blanket ban on facial covering. They are currently looking at imposing
a face veil ban on its civil servants and in schools, and it will enter talks with public transport companies on adding a ban to their terms and conditions for passengers.
Whilst this attack on freedom of expression and freedom to practice your own religion boils my blood it is not because of the West fearing Islamic hegemony (as some of the comments have stated). Let’s shoot the right devil shall we? The reason that this ban is being inflicted on Law abiding citizens is forced equality.
The Liberal Left (and yes I know the CDA proclaim to be Center right but this policy is pure statist left) feel that Women who wear the Niqab are being oppressed by their family. Essentially being forced to wear this cover by overbearing parents or husbands on the threat of violence. Rather than attempt any sort of dialog they seek to ban because thats how they do things.
Essentially they are saying we are right about this and rather than engage you in a peaceful discussion and try to persuade you otherwise, we will just force you not to do this thing.
Unfortunately most people only think this type of behavior from a government is wrong only when it directly affects them. Society will truly be great when Jewish communities stand up for Neo-Nazi free speech, American blacks stand up for peoples right to fly the confederate flag and so on.
As Voltaire said: I detest what you are saying but will defend to the death your right to say it.
Why not put up with things that people do that you find awful as long as they aren’t doing you physical harm and then they will stand up for the things you do that they abhor?
Ben
Jews already stand up for neo-Nazi free speech. It is the Jewish-dominated lawyers of the ACLU that constantly represents KKK members and Holocaust deniers in court cases; for nothing!
The Jews are an extremely bright and socially-concerned race of people. Their dominace of Nobel Prizes, scholarship across the board - Classicals, Art, Literature. Theology, Physics, Neuroscience, Ecomomics, Law, human rights - finance, arts and entertainment is phenomenal. Other groups would do well to follow suit.
Austrolabe compares Holland’s attitude to the Muslim veil and homosexuality.
Islam and the west
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