Tanveer Ahmed, famous for saying “nooooooooo bingo” on a television game show, is teaming up with Daniel Pipes in this debate to argue that Islam is incompatible with democracy.
The No Bingo guy says “noooooooo Islam and democracy”
April 4th, 2008 | Austrolabe | Uncategorized
46 comments ↓
the negative team are all a bunch of girls.
thay are gunna get creamed.
I think you guys should be on the team, I would like to watch that smackdown.
I don’t get it, is this guy a shill for neocons or what?
And Tanveer Ahmed is a fearsome opponent? Sorry, excuse me while I go and have a chuckle. No, wait, I can do that right here.
“If you go out in the woods today,
You’d better not go alone.
It’s lovely out in the woods today,
But safer to stay at home.”
“Picnic time for teddy bears,
The little teddy bears are having a lovely time today.
Watch them, catch them unawares,
And see them picnic on their holiday.
See them gaily dance about.
They love to play and shout.
And never have any cares.
At six o’clock their mommies and daddies
Will take them home to bed
Because they’re tired little teddy bears.”
Don’t underestimate the power of Paul Sheehan especially if he drinks some magic water before performing.
Dunno about how the Muslim side will perform in a debate though…
I don’t understand Tanveer- you are too brilliant to be doing this kind of crap. Your article does not shed light on this bizareness merely makes it more incomprehensible. You remind me of Spike Lee’s “Bamboozled” where the black protagonist becomes a victim of his own so-called racial ’satire’ by opportunistically cashing in on his own creation. We need more muslim cosby shows and the networks will be ready when we refuse to watch or show this nonsense.
Another dissenting muslim voice lost to the neocons *sigh*.
Maybe let’s try to be nicer to dissenters instead of eating each other like piranhas.
It’s bizarre on two levels.
It’s bizarre that a medical professional would put on the equivalent of black face, adopt a racially stereotypical manner and affection, and perform for the amusement of the white folk. That’s bizarre enough.
The second bizarreness is that not only is he performing in this brown and white minstrel show on TV but he’s also a neocon teaming up with Daniel Pipes in a debate with some Muslims. That’s seriously bizarre.
I think that we should put this absurdity to bed once and for all, that if we had just been nicer to Mr Tosser or Madam Lash, that they would have been Muslim, or nicer to Muslims, or orthodox or whatever.
People have been given faculties of intellect and rationality to make independent choices, those who make their choices or irrational grounds deserve the results.
brown Bingo Bob has made his choice.
“you are too brilliant”
neither his choice of profession or his essays convey any evidence of extraordinary (or even ordinary) ability.
perhaps his brilliance lies in calling “nooooooooooo bingo”
I like Tanveer. I think he is a good doctor and a reasonable writer. But he has no idea about Muslim societies (other than Sydney Bengalis). He writes about Islam as some kind of religion of defiance and about political Islam being aligned with the Left. Yet ask him to name 3 prominent 20th century writers of political Islam and he is left stunned.
Sadly, I think the negative team are fairly lacklustre. Poor aunty Sameena gets so nervous in such events. I’m not sure if anyone saw her being interviewed on the 7:30 Report (or was that Lateline?). Poor thing looked like she was ready to explode. Waleed is a good writer and public speaker but debating is something else altogether.
A better line-up for the negative would have been perhaps …
1. Waleed Aly as first speaker (to introduce the topic and the case for the negative).
2. Professor Noah Feldman as second speaker (Feldman would demolish Pipes).
3. I’m not sure who to put as third speaker, but I’d love to cross-examine Pipes.
The problem with the negative side is that there is no one with the command of Arabic that Pipes has. OK, his Arabic is fairly ordinary, but he can at least claim to speak it.
At the same time, so much writing on Islam and politics in Muslim countries (e.g. Maududi, Said Nursi, Ali Shariati etc) has not been written in Arabic.
Just some thoughts.
I should say that I have never heard Anuma Rasul speak. For all I know, she could be absolutely brilliant.
Woops, I mean Amina.
I agree with Irfan that Prof. Noah Feldman would be the man for the job. He presented an excellent speech/Q&A session with Shayk Hamza Yusuf on this very topic a couple of years ago. Maybe someone should send the negative team the DVD.
Samina Yasmin strikes me as someone with a lot of knowledge, but who just can’t present in a clear or convincing manner. I think Waleed Aly will be excellent. (Also don’t know who Amina Rasul is).
Ali Abu Nihem demolished Pipes on Lateline a few years ago. The issue was the Palestinian problem though but you should look at how he did it. Pipes is a very aggressive speaker and it took a filibustering Abu Nimeh to knock him out.
If the negative team are going to stand a chance against Pipes, they need to toughen up and learn how to be combative and aggressive. It’s one thing to give lectures or write articles, it’s quite another thing to be in the midst of a hostile debate with someone like Pipes.
Jeff, I think you mean Ali Abunimah? That was a good debate. I’m pretty sure the transcript is online.
Is Austrolabe planning on reviewing this ‘event’ by any chance?
null, I’m hoping to attend and review the event, insha’Allah.
I noticed that the profile of Pipes makes an issue about how he can read Arabic. Millions of kids in South Asia can also read Arabic. But that’s because they learn how to read the Qur’an in Arabic from a young age. Whether they can understand it or not (despite Urdu being at least 70% Arabic in its vocab) is questionable.
[...] flutter to Austrolabe for informing us that Waleed, Sameena & Amina Rasul are up against Daniel Pipes and others in a [...]
[...] Austrolabe is discussing the debate line up, and in particular the fact that Mr Nooooooo Bingo will be appearing for the Islam is Evil side. [...]
I had Samina Yasmeen for a whole year a few years back. I find her lectures very incoherent. She drifts away from the topic almost always.
I haven’t seen Samina Yasmeen or Amina Rasul in action before (actually, have never even heard of them), but I think Waleed Aly is a decent choice. He’s very articulate and his strength is putting into a few sentences what might take another several paragraphs. I wouldn’t underestimate his ability… Succinct is good in live debates.
As for the positive side, Pipes is a buffoon, while Tanveer is not that great a speaker. Don’t know about Paul Sheehan live.
oh god, this is going to be a huge embarrasment for muslims, who chose the negatibe speakers? Sameena Yasmeen, you have to be kidding me, she does not have the intellect nor the islamic knowledge do compete this debate; if i had to chose 3 to represent the muslims side, it would be: Waleed Aly, Irfan Yusuf and a grand finish by Wassim Doureihi
There’s an Imam in Perth by the name of Muhammad Agherdien. He comes out as a very learned individual and speaks very eloquently. I don’t think he is widely known, but he would be a good candidate for the debate.
There’s some info on him here –
http://www.aussiemuslims.net/i.....;Itemid=31
Any debate on a Islamic subject in Australia has got to include the authors of this site who are head and shoulders above any other Muslim I have ever read, including in the SMH and the Age or seen on TV.
Baybers and Amir, You guys should get out there and sell yourselves a bit more.
I notice no one here has nominated Darrin…
Marcus you nonce we’d prefer to hear from mainstream Muslims and not extremist nutjobs who think the national parks and rivers should be sold off and privatised.
and yet here you are pete, slavishly reading all three of the last posts and all the comments in detail.
That suggests two things
1. you are an idiot who is unable to see even simple contradictions in your behavior
2. You are actually very interested in what the authors and commentators of this website have to say. This is due in large part to they having opinions that allow you an external scaffold on which you can hang your very thin consciousness
The problem is he mistook the hangups of his bengali mates and uncles for problems with islam.
Irfan would do a good job.
“Baybers and Amir, You guys should get out there and sell yourselves a bit more.”
Astaghfirullah!
(sorry)
Irfan would be good. I’ve seen him on TV and he’s very assertive.
It would be great to get a non-muslim to be on the Muslim side too.
You guys could prime up an Anthony Lowenstein in about five minutes I reckon. Just promise him a packet of pringles and some hair gel and I’m sure he’ll be up for it.
This is an elitist racist snowjob unless they include some extremist nutjobs.
Extremist nutjobs? They already have Pipes and Paul Sheman, why do they need another?
Sheman? loool. Someone pass me some magic water, please …
I have liked what I have read by Tanveer in Policy magazine so far though understandably some of you folk may find it a tad harsh. I don’t believe his stuff falls into the same reflexive anti-Islam bashing category as Mr Magic Water. He is genuinely trying to come to grips with some issues in your community and even points out they are not completely related to religious doctrine. At the same time I greatly respect and enjoy the stuff that Amir Butler puts out and agree that he should sell himself more.
I have a real problem with just about anyone suggested for the job. What about people with real Islamic learning and knowledge who uphold the deen and don’t water it down? If asked, only a handful of them like Sheik Naeem would even be interested in addresing buffoons like Pipes.
Well it was last night, wasn’t it? How was it?
Didn’t ANY of you go?
I went. The best debater on the night was, surprisingly, Tanveer Ahmed. I guess all that Friday night debating practice at Sydney Grammar was worth it. Tanveer carried the audience with his eloquently expressed emotional waffle.
The problem was, of course, that the vast bulk of the audience couldn’t tell that virtually everything Tanveer said was literally waffle. Tanveer was 3rd speaker for the affirmative, and his eloquent hot air left 3rd speaker of the negative (Waleed Aly) frustrated. It’s hard trying to navigate a clean path through bullsh*t.
Tanveer spoke about Islamic scriptural sources as if he had read and mastered 1,400 years of Koranic exegesis. He made the ambit claim that Muslim texts are always interpreted in a strict manner which limits individual liberty. But anyone trying to hold their breath waiting for textual examples is unlikely to have survived the rest of the night.
Tanveer also suggested that he was a lapsed Muslim or even an infidel. He didn’t elaborate too much on that. I’m not sure if he’s trying to become Australia’s answer to Wafa Sultan (though presumably with an added appendage). Perhaps he’s hoping for the right media opportunity to declare his infideldom (??) and hope it generates a few Muslim hotheads to issue a fatwa or two. I’d be happy to do it, but I doubt Tanveer could afford my hourly rate.
None of the other speakers were engaging in a debate in any real sense, though Amina Rasul was certainly effective in putting Daniel Pipes in his place.
The best feature of the night was perhaps the audience participation. Michael Darby got up and sounded like a spokesman for the nominally Christian equivalent of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Still, I can complain all I like. The night, like the 3rd speaker for the affirmative, was a sell-out. For Sydney, it was without a doubt a real intellectual feast.
Haha, thanks for the summary Irfan.
Tanveer once said to my mum “But Aunty, my real passion lies in media”
I guess he’s found his shtick!
One of the classic moments of the night was when Amina Rasul posed this question: “When will the United States, the leader of the free and democratic world, follow the examples of Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Bangladesh and elect a female leader?” Pipes, of course, felt rather uncomfortable at that question. What someone should have asked him is whether he would support a black man with a black nominally Muslim father to become president.
I would still rather live in the United States than Turkey, Indonesia, Bangladesh or Pakistan. It is not really a strong argument against the US.
You cannot tell me that any of these four nations are anywhere near the United States when it comes to personal freedoms and liberties.
Shadower, have you been to Indonesia or Turkey? How can you make that judgment?
[...] Radio National’s Counterpoint program have ‘selected highlights‘ from the recent debate on Islam and democracy. It’s not the entire debate but begins with Daniel Pipes making the [...]
irfan bro, whats ur email adrres?
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