Green Left Weekly are reporting on the RMIT prayer room issue: the apparent decision of the university administration to convert the Muslim prayer room into a “multi-faith spiritual centre”.
For decades, the campus had prayer rooms for Muslim students, including separate rooms for males and females. In 2005 Muslim students pointed out that the existing rooms were too small and unsafe to use. In 2006/07, RMIT approved a new proposal to design and build a replacement Muslim prayer room.
On March 18 word broke out that RMIT had broken its promise to build a bigger Muslim prayer room and had instead decided to make it a multi-faith spiritual centre. It was only at the first Student Services Religious Advisory Committee meeting that students heard of this intention. Ironically, advertising brochures for international students are still being published at RMIT promoting the new “Muslim Prayer Room”.
A letter from the president of the university’s Muslim Student Association can be read here, along with additional commentary.
Given the growing numbers of students from the Gulf attending the university and the fact that the university is actively spruiking for students from the Muslim world, it seems a rather curious decision. As far as we can tell, the incident hasn’t been covered in the Arab press yet but if/when it does, it is unlikely to make RMIT appear a more attractive study destination than it’s local competitors (who have, as of yet, not taken steps to reduce their accommodation of Muslim students or converted their prayer rooms into unisex multi-faith prayer halls).
56 comments ↓
So is there an ‘Islamic’ reason for opposing this multi faith centre, ie. is it not permissible to pray in such place?
If it is a secular college, why should it not be multifaith, instead of men/woman segregated Muslim only.
Seems a perfectly appropriate step by the college.
From the forum linked in the OP:
“Important Note – the Student Services Group has opened the doors of the new rooms as a Spiritual Centre and are tricking students and staff into using it. It is extremely important that NO one uses the new facilities until RMIT decides to give it back to the Muslims.”
Poor RMIT, having to negotiate with such fanatics.
BTW, someone on the forum mentions Muslim women’s obligatory ablutions before prayer. I didn’t think women had obligatory ablutions - nor even that praying 5 times a day was obligatory for women.
To be fair, as someone whose first real encounter with Muslims (en masse at anyrate) was through the Melbourne Uni prayer rooms, I do feel their pain. One of the things that is great about the segregated space, is that it is a place to literally take your hijab off and unwind. There are very few places at Uni (apart from the breastfeeding mothers rooms, and the Womens’ Rooms (which frankly are overrun by rabid second-wave feminists and lesbian activists) to do this.
Why can’t they have both a multifaith centre AND Muslim prayer rooms?
[…] has a post up on the RMIT Prayer Room issue. I first heard of this last year, along with rumours that Melbourne Uni is going the same way. […]
[…] has a post up on the RMIT Prayer Room issue. I first heard of this last year, along with rumours that Melbourne Uni is going the same way. […]
“There are very few places at Uni (apart from the breastfeeding mothers rooms, and the Womens’ Rooms (which frankly are overrun by rabid second-wave feminists and lesbian activists) to do this.”
To be a bit pompous, universities are supposed to be about exploring different ways of thinking, not coddling prejudices. If the lesbians don’t ming being “overrun” by hijabis, why should you mind?
Antish: Ablutions (both wudu and ghusl) are compulsory for women as they are for men; likewise, for the five prayers as well. However, there are certain times, such as menses, when a woman can’t do either.
So most Mosques have facilities for women’s ablutions?
I have yet to come across a masjid that didn’t have a facility for women’s ablutions. These facilities are part of the bathroom.
Salam,
In airports all over the world they have muli-faith prayer room, officially they can be used by members of any faith.. but in reality i have yet to see a buddhist or chriostian come there to pray or mediate,,,,, in reality only muslims use them…….
I have no problem with them deciding to shut it down but they should advertise accurately so muslim students can decide based on the facts whether rmit is a good place for muslims to study and pay their money to.
Firstly, let’s establish the few facts relevant to this case:
Fact 1: There is a DEDICATED campus Spiritual Centre.
Fact 2: There is a DEDICATED Islamic prayer facility on the rooftop of building 9.
Fact 3: University officials planned to demolish the rooftop prayer facilities and replace it with two more levels for their own purposes.
Fact 4: University officials promised a DEDICATED Islamic prayer facility to be located on level 2 of Building 11.
Now, there is a push by some elements to have this area rebranded a ‘Spiritual Centre’, thereby removing its dedicated role as an Islamic prayer facility. This was not part of the original agreement.
There is nothing fanatic about demanding what one was originally promised, even if it means boycotting this ‘Spiritual Centre Mark II’.
It would be interesting to know if Fact 4 was actually the uni’s stated policy, or just something someone once said to someone.
But back to the very first reponse - are Muslims not allowed to pray in no-exlusive spaces? Why the fuss?
A good idea would be a multi faith complex with large rooms for each faith group who wishes to have a room in the complex.
If a particular faith group needs services as part of their place to pray then that should also be installed.
Members of different faiths may enter the complex through the same door but they will all have their own designated rooms for worship.
So there will be facilities for Catholics to hold masses and hear confessions? For Wiccans to hold whatever Wiccans hold? Etc That’s totally unrealistic and not within the scope of the facilities a non-religious educational institution needs to peovide.
Really, if someone made the decision to enroll at RMIT based on the presence of a Muslim-only, gender segregated prayer room, they may well have not thought hard enough about the realities of life in a secular institution in a secular and egalitarian country.
It will be great if Muslims get the prayer room back, inshallah.
If they don’t, then the positive aspect of it can be that it will be a good opportunity and a great place for Dawah!
So really, it’s a win win for us.
This issue is not about Muslims being able or unable to utilise non-exclusive places. The fact that RMIT students utilise the ‘Spiritual Centre’ already attests to this.
Antish:
The Women’s Room *is* exclusionary towards hijabis (as are most second-wave Western feminists). I don’t want to be patronised as a brain-washed victim of a patriarchal religion (as they believe I am) everytime I need somewhere to relax, unwind and pray.
And why should we accept lowest-common denominator. Trying to obliterate religion in public spaces is aggressive secularist ideology and I wouldn’t want to live in that society any more than I want to live under a dictatorial absolutist monarchy that only allows one form of religion.
Umm Yasmin
Just curious, but why can’t you kick back and relax - sans hijab - on the University lawn like every other normal student? If a university was providing facilities exclusively so chicks with hijabs can take them off, I would hope students would be threatening that university with legal action.
^ Perzackly.
“This issue is not about Muslims being able or unable to utilise non-exclusive places.”
So what IS the issue? OK, minor admin things at uni can be really annoying, but it’s hardly worth the ‘Islam is in danger!’ overtones, is it?
” Trying to obliterate religion in public spaces is aggressive secularist ideology and I wouldn’t want to live in that society any more ”
Umm, no - the issue here is that some Muslims don’t WANT to pray in a puiblic space, they insist on an excusive private space.
I hope that if this takes of the RMIT Satanists’ Guild (or whatever - I’m sure there is one) insists on being provided with its own space a well.
All the second-wave feminists and lesbians I’ve come across worship Islam because they take it for granted that all Muslims hate America, Israel, Christianity and capitalism, and apparently that means they’re their natural allies. ‘We are all Hezbollah now’ is their fave slogan I believe.
The way to deal with this isn’t through legal action or sending students to plead with the VC, but to use economic means. If the uni started losing foreign students because they are duplicitous then I’m sure they will reconsider their position.
John Greenfield @21
Hi John,
“why can’t you kick back and relax - sans hijab - on the University lawn like every other normal student?”
Because I wear hijab as a religious obligation, namely that I do not remove my headcover in front of unrelated men
You might also ask why there exist breastfeeding women might not want to expose their breasts whilst feeding their children, and thus enjoy the private spaces that Universities offer them.
Antish:
“RMIT Satanists’ Guild (or whatever - I’m sure there is one) insists on being provided with its own space a well.”
If the Satanists’ Guild had a religious requirement to perform some prayer or meditation during the day, and there were a sizeable number of them, then of course the University should cater to their needs as well.
G-man:
Nope, unfortunately we’re (Muslim women) patronised not supported by the vast majority of second-wave feminists I’ve ever read / come-across. Mind you, our causes are co-opted by them, and our voices are silenced in place of their voices, so I can understand your confusion. I write this as a third-wave Muslim feminist.
Feminism is good.
Randall, before you start trying to blackmail the university, maybe you could get a coherent complaint together. It’s contended (using fairly slippery language - “university officials” could mean the guys running the carpark) that the uni promised an exclusive space for Muslims, then changed its mind.
Unless there is some actual disadvantage to Muslims in this (other than the Waaah! They took our toys! response), there isn’t really any problem, is there? No-one has identified any actual problem for Muslims praying in a multi-faith centre, and as has been pointed out it’s likely that Muslims will be the great majority of users.
Sara - see? There’s at least one thng we agree on.
Well, feminism has its uses. But don’t get too excited, antish. I still don’t like you. And as I recall, your taste in fiction sucks.
*sigh*
Too much?
FWIW, despite all the world being a masjid, we are recommended to avoid places that false religions use for their worship as Jinn congregate in these places.
Well, who can argue with that? Wouldn’t want the Jinn hanging around dirty infidels at the kaffir university to sully you… I wonder if Pauline Hanson reads this blog. She needs all the help she can get for her next election campaign.
There doesn’t need to be disadvantage. By stripping Muslims of their prayer room, the university is sending a signal that it doesn’t really want religious Muslims to come there. That’s the bottom line.
Bad for RMIT but great for other universities who should be highlighting RMIT’s false advertising of a Muslim prayer room and promoting themselves as the “Muslim friendly alternative”.
People need to remember that Muslim students bring big $$$ into these unis and they should be kissing the collective feet of their Muslim students, not dissing them and behaving as if it’s the Muslims who owe them something and should just be grateful for the opportunity to hang out with ugly, hairy lesbian “Womyn” who want them to apostate.
Randall, I could easily spin it in a different direction, but I won’t bother. I would suggest, though, that a uni not prostituting its ideals (strict non-descrimination on grounds of gender and religion - as per hard-won Australian law) for the sake of cashed-up students is a rare thing in the Oz tertiary sector these days.
And the ugly, hairy Muslims want the lesbians (not that ‘Muslim’ and ‘lesbian’ are mutually exclusive) to join their cult. If you don’t LIKE the challenge of differing ideas, stay away from universities.
Just go to Vic Uni it pretty much offers a lot of the courses RMIT has, and if you ever attend RMIT and another tertiary institute you would see what I mean.
At the time when the RMITIS were told they were going to be moved I was on their board. The President of the Islamic Society told us at the meeting that the Uni had told him they would be moving the prayer room due to redevelopments. Sadly no one bothered to ask for anything in writing it seems.
I’m pretty sure there still is the prayer room @ Bourke St Campus.
“Well, who can argue with that? Wouldn’t want the Jinn hanging around dirty infidels at the kaffir university to sully you… I wonder if Pauline Hanson reads this blog. She needs all the help she can get for her next election campaign.”
I have no problem associating with kaffirs, even smart alecs.
Whether Pauline Hanson reads this blog or not is irrelevant as to what the teachings of the righteous scholars are. One can be diplomatic about communicating these issues [which I obviously have no interest in here] or one can choose to leave them unsaid, what one should not do is disregard them out of some misplaced desire to conform or utter what amounts to slander of the righteous scholars or ridicule the deen of Allah.
To put it in perspective there is a Christian room already as well as a Buddhist room as well as a homosexuals room as well as a womens room. So why shouldn’t the Muslims get a room too considering the amount of money and numbers they have?
To be fair they should get rid of all the other rooms first.
Thanks, Fatima - that is a vital bit of info. (Although the women’s and gays’ rooms aren’t in the same category, really - not being picky, just trying to keep the distinctions straight). If that’s the case, well, go for it RMITIS.
Sorry Abdul Rahman, one wouldn’t wish to sound like a dhimmi rising above his status. Must the Jinns getting to me.
What do you mean they should get rid of the other rooms first fatima? If they have all those other rooms then it seems fair enough that they have a room for Muslims (especially with all those Jinns hanging around elsewhere).
G-man, we are always willing to indulge our favourite dhimmi’s and their quaint little ideas. It always reminds one of one’s own inherent superiority, you see. One always finds the ego boosted from correcting the half formed thoughts of lesser men.
Now, you’re not quite on the ball with the idea of demonic possession there G-man. You see, demons are not nice individuals, and would not care to worry about the free speech of their host dhimmi’s. How you convinced yourself of such an erroneous belief is beyond even my enhanced Muslim thought processes.
For that reason, it can’tossibly be the Jinn causing you to speak your mind. Our indulgence is.
Lastly, I know some of you dhimmi’s have taken to the mangled ideas of batty Bat Yeor and the intellectual equivalent of her ugly stepson, Robert Spencer, but it really is not advisable to be pursuing such mentally unhealthy reading interests. You do not want to end up divorcing yourself from reality as those two clearly have.
Alright dear? That’s a good lad.
At the end of the day this needs to be looked at from a market perspective, we do live in a free market (leaning) society after all. The Islamic community is a niche market and not every university has to cater to every single niche market, it would be quite childish to complain that “such and such a faith have their own room so we want one”.
It would be too costly to go after every niche market, it would also go against the whole point of breaking markets down into niche markets to begin with.
Yeah I guess Eudaemonion , but I’m still not paying this week’s jizya.
Actually, at the end of the day this needs to be looked at from an Islamic perspective. It should be the beginning and end point in all musings.
Although your free market opinion has its merits.
The Islamic viewpoint is of course the start and finish but I think if you are going to argue with non muslim uni administrators then the only thing they care about is dollars and image. If they cared about Islam, they wouldn’t have stripped the walls of the Quranic ayats and hadith and turned the musallah into this multifaith monstrosity.
Strider, would you obect if they “cared about” all religions equally? Surely that’s the only way they can reasonably behave.
The false religions of unbelievers Antish? Surely you jest.
Abdul Rahman how is that going to help in this situation where RMIT is obviously not looking at it from an Islamic perspective? Looking at it from RMIT’s point of view does not mean you are neglecting the Islamic viewpoint at all, rather that is the whole point behind this isn’t it? At the end of the day the Islamic community is a niche market, and there are other providers of this service that have targeted this market in a more direct manner.
The argument that they have to provide one because the Muslim women want somewhere to take their hijjab off is a weak argument, they asked for a place to pray and as far as I know a female is meant to be wearing the hijjab when praying, so what exactly is the point behind this argument to being with? No institute should have to provide an Islamic prayer room rather than a multifaith room. And I find it quite selfish of the Islamic community to be demanding this.
Strider, of course we need to speak to kaffirs in their own language, but that doesn’t change the fact that our starting point in all of that should be an Islamic frame of reference.
Shadower, I agree that these institutions should not be required to provide what ever services anyone happens to want/demand or feel entitled to. A place of prayer is OUR responsibility, which goes back to having a Muslim frame of reference, so that we keep our understanding on these issues in a proper perspective.
However, if there are sufficient Muslims on campus it would be in the University’s best interest to do so, or at least make a space available for us to rent, just like what happens in the real world outside of these places.
How can women’s requirement to pray in private [unless there is no alternative of course] be accomplished with a multi-faith prayer room? Having an unsegregated prayer room only works at my campus because there are only a handful of Muslims there at present. It is not selfish to ASK [demanding is simply rude] for this since we tend to use these facilities at a much higher rate than anyone else. The fact is, in hospitals where pre-existing chapels exist, the priests generally want these kept as Christian spaces.
What on earth does the practise in hospitals have to do with a secular uni? (And are you confusing the christian - usually Catholic -”public” hospitals with purely government-run public hospitals? I don’t know, but I suspect that secular hospitals tend not to have exclusively christian chapels and those that do are changing to multifaith, in line with Oz law.
I am talking about secular public hospitals, both are publicly funded state run institutions, so I believe that the comparison is valid. Take a look at how many of them have a chapel as well as a multi-faith prayer room, I talk from experience and have seen many like this all over NSW havinga wife who works in the industry.
Are you sure? Eg, one of Melbourne’s largest public, state-funded hospitals is St Vincent’s. It’s owned by the Catholic church so I wouldn’t be surprised if “priests” had a say in the running of the chapel.
But anyway, what does this have to do with RMIT?
100% sure, I made explicit reference to purely state run public hospitals. I have spoken to people involved in the process and can think of two tertiary [ie: really big] and one secondary hospital in Sydney alone with this set up, the others I visit I have not checked.
The point is, if it is acceptable to maintain seperate facilities for one faith community, why not another who use these facilities at a high rate, both as a percentage of believers and in the regularity of use? It is not the same as providing a dedicated space for the reformed church of satan or even more seriously Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs.
We are the only faith community with such a regular and high volume use of these spaces, it is not unreasonable to make available a suitable place, whether we pay for it or not.
I think it’s more reasonable not to provide any in a state-run institution. And as a matter of interest, what are the names of the Sydney hospitals you mention?
Westmead, The RHW/POW/Sydney kids complex, Bankstown.
Why is it reasonable not to provide services at a state run facility simply because it is a secular institution? This reflects a poor understanding of the historical meaning of secular, which is not anti-religion at all. Is it because the services aren’t used by everyone? Should the canteens then be shut simply because I don’t eat out and always bring a cut lunch? What about wheel chair access ramps, I don’t need them and neither do most of the population.
From another perspective, would it be more convenient for the population of the university at large if several hundred Muslims prayed on the lawns two to three times a day or furtively looked around for empty rooms? How would this impact on those made uncomfortable by public displays of religion, or who just want to sit down and relax yet feel constrained by the loons bowing and prostrating?
What then is the basis of this “more reasonable” option?
Secularisation, user pays?
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