Comments for Austrolabe http://austrolabe.com Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:05:34 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by Abdullah http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-195175 Abdullah Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:05:34 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-195175 France's version of secularism is so fragile, that even some kind of clothes could demolish it. Well, surely it doesn't deserve a survival. @A'ysha, You have exposed what the so called 'western value' really is. France’s version of secularism is so fragile, that even some kind of clothes could demolish it. Well, surely it doesn’t deserve a survival.

@A’ysha,

You have exposed what the so called ‘western value’ really is.

]]> Comment on Halal Hotels by maruf http://austrolabe.com/2008/05/07/halal-hotels/comment-page-1/#comment-195172 maruf Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:50:04 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/2008/05/07/halal-hotels/#comment-195172 Alhamdulillah. I hope so that A halal hotel will be very very good idea if it would follow the islamic rules accurately. Shukran Lakum. Alhamdulillah. I hope so that A halal hotel will be very very good idea if it would follow the islamic rules accurately. Shukran Lakum.

]]> Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by DrM http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-195112 DrM Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:22:02 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-195112 What utterly trite, Gman. Come up with a better distraction when you're not obsessing over woman's clothing. What utterly trite, Gman. Come up with a better distraction when you’re not obsessing over woman’s clothing.

]]> Comment on The fake Sheikh “Haron” by hamaid http://austrolabe.com/2007/12/06/the-fake-sheikh-haron/comment-page-1/#comment-195008 hamaid Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:56:06 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/2007/12/06/the-fake-sheikh-haron/#comment-195008 He is a fake and he is there only to malign our religion ISLAM. May ALLAH guide us and protect us from the brethren of satan like SH He is a fake and he is there only to malign our religion ISLAM. May ALLAH guide us and protect us from the brethren of satan like SH

]]> Comment on Burka Ban: Not Just Black and White by A'ysha http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/26/burka-ban-not-just-black-and-white/comment-page-1/#comment-194941 A'ysha Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:13:14 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=999#comment-194941 What gives Singer the right to judge what is ugly and what is attractive. I didn't know that when I walk out of the house I have to be putting on a parade for the public to stare and rate me. When you hear such an 'intelligent' (note of sarcasm) comment by a person, it makes you question how seriously you should take them. It was good that Richard Peppiatt took a step to experience a burqa before criticizing it and being honest in his findings but I don't see the importance of seeing ones face in public. This will be someone who is just going to be walking past you in the street and shopping malls, why the need to see how they look like? Do you just like to stare at women and make them feel uncomfortable? Other than security reasons, I do not see the need to want to reveal the face of these women who CHOOSE to wear their Islam dress. What gives Singer the right to judge what is ugly and what is attractive. I didn’t know that when I walk out of the house I have to be putting on a parade for the public to stare and rate me. When you hear such an ‘intelligent’ (note of sarcasm) comment by a person, it makes you question how seriously you should take them.

It was good that Richard Peppiatt took a step to experience a burqa before criticizing it and being honest in his findings but I don’t see the importance of seeing ones face in public. This will be someone who is just going to be walking past you in the street and shopping malls, why the need to see how they look like? Do you just like to stare at women and make them feel uncomfortable? Other than security reasons, I do not see the need to want to reveal the face of these women who CHOOSE to wear their Islam dress.

]]> Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by A'ysha http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-194940 A'ysha Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:59:07 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-194940 George said: "the two main strikes against it are that it deprives its wearer of the use of her arms, as well as impeding her vision" The burqa is a loose material that covers the body, George, not a strait jacket. So, yes we do have full use of our arms, I am speaking from fact and experience rather than observation and opinion. Also, the burqa does not impede on the vision, when was the last time you heard a woman wearing a burqa walking into walls or getting run over by traffic? George said: “the two main strikes against it are that it deprives its wearer of the use of her arms, as well as impeding her vision”

The burqa is a loose material that covers the body, George, not a strait jacket. So, yes we do have full use of our arms, I am speaking from fact and experience rather than observation and opinion. Also, the burqa does not impede on the vision, when was the last time you heard a woman wearing a burqa walking into walls or getting run over by traffic?

]]> Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by A'ysha http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-194938 A'ysha Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:52:12 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-194938 You know what the most frustrating thing is for a Muslim woman (like myself) these days are? Non-muslim people in the public trying to ‘stop the oppression of Muslim women’. Firstly, we do not need anyone to speak out on behalf of us and ‘defend’ us when there is nothing to defend. If we find something wrong with our religion, rights, dress-code or whatever the issue may be, we will speak out against it or rebel. We do not need people like; Ariana, George Carty etc. to speak on our behalf as we are capable to do so, thank you very much. Ariana; You’ve repetitively been incorrectly stating that the burqa is not a religious garment, only a cultural one. I would like to educate you a little about Islam and the requirements for fulfilling our duties to Allah the best we can. In the Quran; ‘And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like an eye for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands), and to draw their veils all over Juyub…’ (al-Noor 24:31) -‘Juyub’ is interpreted as meaning ‘over the necks and chests so that nothing can be seen of them’ (Ad-Durr Al Manthur 6:182) and ‘bodies, faces, necks and bosoms’ (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.6, Hadith No.282) ‘O Prophet, Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their Jalabib over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known, so as not to be annoyed...’ (33:59) -‘Jalabib’ is interpreted as meaning by ‘Ali bin Abi Talhah ‘a garment that covers everything except the left eye showing’ (At-Tabari 20:325) This reference from the Holy Quran is evidence that a woman is to cover herself from people that are non-mahrams (lawful for her to marry) to her. It clearly states that the entire body is to be covered. Above are the interpretations concerning this. Now lets look at the Sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammed (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The woman in ihram (a time in hajj) is forbidden to veil her face (wear niqaab) or to wear the burqa’.” -This indicates that when women were not in ihraam, women used to cover their faces. This does not mean that if a woman takes off her niqaab or burqa’ in the state of ihraam that she should leave her face uncovered in the presence of non-mahram men. Rather she is obliged to cover it with something other than the niqaab or burqa’, on the evidence of the hadeeth of A’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: “We were with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihraam, and when men passed by us, we would lower the khimaar on our heads over our faces, and when they moved on we would lift it again” (Reported by Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah. Ad-Daruqutni reports a similar hadeeth on the authority of Umm Salama) It is also known that during the time of the prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) the believing women covered their entire bodies (including the face). This makes it a Sunnah as it was a practise that our prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not object. This is the evidence from the Quarn and hadiths that you so eagerly requested. I can continue on for many more pages quoting many Shariah rulings, Ma’thahibs and High Scholars opinions and just command sense reasons as to why this choice of a dress-code is the Islamic way. Ariana said: “every muslim i know would like to see the demise of the burqa..activists from afghanistan, to iran, to europe have spoken out against it. a few islamic countries have already outlawed it.” It is clear that you do not know many Muslims or that the only muslims that want your company are uneducated about their own religion (may Allah guide them to the right path). I know many Muslims that both agree with the burqa as a way of dress and that disagree with it. They have the right to form their opinion but to want to demise the burqa is like saying that the practise of the prophet’s wives and the believing women is wrong, which goes against Islam. If muslim women chose to wear the burqa or not then they will each be held accountable for their actions but it doesn’t go for saying that just because some women wear the normal hijab that that is what is required ONLY. Not everyone practises their religion 100%, even though we all should. These, so-called, activists should educate themselves with their religion before speaking out against it. To call yourself a Muslim means to adhere to its rulings, you can’t just pick and chose. Ariana, please tell me which ‘islamic countries have outlawed it’. This is an answer I would like to hear most... Ariana said: ” covering your whole face whilst in the company of half the members of society has to start affecting you psychologically. while wearing a burka, a woman can never be free or independent, no matter what naive or idiotic proponents of it might have you believe. a burka demans a woman to nothing more than a sexual object-it implies that every single part of your body, even your face, is sexual explicit. posing naked for playboy or wearing a burka are two sides of the same coin.” Ariana, when you have hard evidence (or any evidence) that wearing the burqa starts to psychologically affect you then speak out confidently; otherwise please (for the sake of the women you are apparently speaking on behalf of) keep your opinions to yourself. Wearing the hijab or the burqa gives women more freedom than women choosing to reveal themselves in miniskirts and singlets because it gives us a chance to be interacted with as human beings rather than a sexual object in the eyes of stranger men. We get to be judged on the content of our character rather than how skinny, blonde, dark or attractive we are. Posing naked for playboy and wearing a burqa are NOT the same thing, one is being shameless and offensive while the other is being modest and respectable. That was a disgusting comparison and every Muslim women would be offended by that. Ariana Said: “muslim pms in france are supporting it, as is the imam of the paris mosque, dalil boubakeur . many muslims also criticise it..aswell as a high number of arab human and womans rights activists and politicians.” Just because muslim pms and the imam in paris mosque agree and criticise it doesn’t mean that they are necessarily correct. Many muslim leaders in Islam after our prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) have been corrupt in complying with the governments wishes rather than the religious obligations. And for the ‘arab human and womans rights activists and politicians’, if they are not muslim, it shouldn’t concern them, and if they are, they should do some serious religious studies to further educate themselves. Overall, I believe that France has been racist to Islam for many years now. Years ago, it was the banning of the hijab in schools and universities and now it is the banning of the burqa publicly. Women should be able to dress whichever way they chose fit as long as it is not revealing anything offensive to the public. Wearing the burqa does the exact opposite, it covers everything and I do not see how that can be offensive to anyone in the public unless they are perverts. You know what the most frustrating thing is for a Muslim woman (like myself) these days are? Non-muslim people in the public trying to ‘stop the oppression of Muslim women’. Firstly, we do not need anyone to speak out on behalf of us and ‘defend’ us when there is nothing to defend. If we find something wrong with our religion, rights, dress-code or whatever the issue may be, we will speak out against it or rebel. We do not need people like; Ariana, George Carty etc. to speak on our behalf as we are capable to do so, thank you very much.
Ariana;
You’ve repetitively been incorrectly stating that the burqa is not a religious garment, only a cultural one. I would like to educate you a little about Islam and the requirements for fulfilling our duties to Allah the best we can.
In the Quran;
‘And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like an eye for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands), and to draw their veils all over Juyub…’ (al-Noor 24:31)
-‘Juyub’ is interpreted as meaning ‘over the necks and chests so that nothing can be seen of them’ (Ad-Durr Al Manthur 6:182) and ‘bodies, faces, necks and bosoms’ (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.6, Hadith No.282)
‘O Prophet, Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their Jalabib over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known, so as not to be annoyed…’ (33:59)
-‘Jalabib’ is interpreted as meaning by ‘Ali bin Abi Talhah ‘a garment that covers everything except the left eye showing’ (At-Tabari 20:325)
This reference from the Holy Quran is evidence that a woman is to cover herself from people that are non-mahrams (lawful for her to marry) to her. It clearly states that the entire body is to be covered. Above are the interpretations concerning this.
Now lets look at the Sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammed (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The woman in ihram (a time in hajj) is forbidden to veil her face (wear niqaab) or to wear the burqa’.”
-This indicates that when women were not in ihraam, women used to cover their faces. This does not mean that if a woman takes off her niqaab or burqa’ in the state of ihraam that she should leave her face uncovered in the presence of non-mahram men. Rather she is obliged to cover it with something other than the niqaab or burqa’, on the evidence of the hadeeth of A’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: “We were with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihraam, and when men passed by us, we would lower the khimaar on our heads over our faces, and when they moved on we would lift it again” (Reported by Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah. Ad-Daruqutni reports a similar hadeeth on the authority of Umm Salama)
It is also known that during the time of the prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) the believing women covered their entire bodies (including the face). This makes it a Sunnah as it was a practise that our prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not object.
This is the evidence from the Quarn and hadiths that you so eagerly requested. I can continue on for many more pages quoting many Shariah rulings, Ma’thahibs and High Scholars opinions and just command sense reasons as to why this choice of a dress-code is the Islamic way.
Ariana said:
“every muslim i know would like to see the demise of the burqa..activists from afghanistan, to iran, to europe have spoken out against it. a few islamic countries have already outlawed it.”
It is clear that you do not know many Muslims or that the only muslims that want your company are uneducated about their own religion (may Allah guide them to the right path). I know many Muslims that both agree with the burqa as a way of dress and that disagree with it. They have the right to form their opinion but to want to demise the burqa is like saying that the practise of the prophet’s wives and the believing women is wrong, which goes against Islam. If muslim women chose to wear the burqa or not then they will each be held accountable for their actions but it doesn’t go for saying that just because some women wear the normal hijab that that is what is required ONLY. Not everyone practises their religion 100%, even though we all should. These, so-called, activists should educate themselves with their religion before speaking out against it. To call yourself a Muslim means to adhere to its rulings, you can’t just pick and chose.
Ariana, please tell me which ‘islamic countries have outlawed it’. This is an answer I would like to hear most…
Ariana said:
” covering your whole face whilst in the company of half the members of society has to start affecting you psychologically. while wearing a burka, a woman can never be free or independent, no matter what naive or idiotic proponents of it might have you believe. a burka demans a woman to nothing more than a sexual object-it implies that every single part of your body, even your face, is sexual explicit. posing naked for playboy or wearing a burka are two sides of the same coin.”
Ariana, when you have hard evidence (or any evidence) that wearing the burqa starts to psychologically affect you then speak out confidently; otherwise please (for the sake of the women you are apparently speaking on behalf of) keep your opinions to yourself. Wearing the hijab or the burqa gives women more freedom than women choosing to reveal themselves in miniskirts and singlets because it gives us a chance to be interacted with as human beings rather than a sexual object in the eyes of stranger men. We get to be judged on the content of our character rather than how skinny, blonde, dark or attractive we are. Posing naked for playboy and wearing a burqa are NOT the same thing, one is being shameless and offensive while the other is being modest and respectable. That was a disgusting comparison and every Muslim women would be offended by that.
Ariana Said:
“muslim pms in france are supporting it, as is the imam of the paris mosque, dalil boubakeur . many muslims also criticise it..aswell as a high number of arab human and womans rights activists and politicians.”
Just because muslim pms and the imam in paris mosque agree and criticise it doesn’t mean that they are necessarily correct. Many muslim leaders in Islam after our prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) have been corrupt in complying with the governments wishes rather than the religious obligations. And for the ‘arab human and womans rights activists and politicians’, if they are not muslim, it shouldn’t concern them, and if they are, they should do some serious religious studies to further educate themselves.
Overall, I believe that France has been racist to Islam for many years now. Years ago, it was the banning of the hijab in schools and universities and now it is the banning of the burqa publicly. Women should be able to dress whichever way they chose fit as long as it is not revealing anything offensive to the public. Wearing the burqa does the exact opposite, it covers everything and I do not see how that can be offensive to anyone in the public unless they are perverts.

]]> Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by GMan http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-194869 GMan Sun, 28 Jun 2009 04:07:32 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-194869 This is for dear angry Dr M. A little Michael Jackson in a non-western county: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw6c81D0iMc This is for dear angry Dr M. A little Michael Jackson in a non-western county:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw6c81D0iMc

]]> Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by Ariana http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-194853 Ariana Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:31:00 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-194853 Amir said.. "Ariana, you claim that niqab isn’t a religious garment. Does that mean that if it was a religiously-mandated garment, you would support the right of women to wear it? And who is the arbiter of what is and what is not a legitimate Islamic ruling on women’s dress? Surely, it’s not the French state." No, then i wouldnt support a possible ban on it. If women thought that they would be going against their religion by showing their faces (and this belief was reasonable based on religious texts), then i wouldnt want a state to interfere with that. There is no arbiter, each individual can interpret their religion differently..thats why muslim dress/lifestyle varies so much. however from my knowledge there is nothing that gives credibility to the claim that the niqab is islamic. "And, as an aside, there are shariah proofs for covering the face or, at least, that is an allowable and praiseworthy act. It’s not something foreign to Islam." Ok well i havent really heard any. could you provide some examples? interpretations of sharia vary considerably, and even if that was the case, in my opinion exposing your face still wouldnt be enchroaching on any duties. DrM.. "i am fed with these racist neanderthals and their pathetic excuses of their racism." criticising the niqab/burka isnt always racist. sometimes, especially when coming from the right, it is. im not sure what sarkozy's intentions were..probably to win some cheap political points. however, muslim pms in france are supporting it, as is the imam of the paris mosque, dalil boubakeur . many muslims also criticise it..aswell as a high number of arab human and womans rights activists and politicians. Amir said..

“Ariana, you claim that niqab isn’t a religious garment. Does that mean that if it was a religiously-mandated garment, you would support the right of women to wear it? And who is the arbiter of what is and what is not a legitimate Islamic ruling on women’s dress? Surely, it’s not the French state.”

No, then i wouldnt support a possible ban on it. If women thought that they would be going against their religion by showing their faces (and this belief was reasonable based on religious texts), then i wouldnt want a state to interfere with that.

There is no arbiter, each individual can interpret their religion differently..thats why muslim dress/lifestyle varies so much. however from my knowledge there is nothing that gives credibility to the claim that the niqab is islamic.

“And, as an aside, there are shariah proofs for covering the face or, at least, that is an allowable and praiseworthy act. It’s not something foreign to Islam.”

Ok well i havent really heard any. could you provide some examples? interpretations of sharia vary considerably, and even if that was the case, in my opinion exposing your face still wouldnt be enchroaching on any duties.

DrM..
“i am fed with these racist neanderthals and their pathetic excuses of their racism.”

criticising the niqab/burka isnt always racist. sometimes, especially when coming from the right, it is. im not sure what sarkozy’s intentions were..probably to win some cheap political points. however, muslim pms in france are supporting it, as is the imam of the paris mosque, dalil boubakeur . many muslims also criticise it..aswell as a high number of arab human and womans rights activists and politicians.

]]> Comment on Sarkozy wants “Burqa” ban by George Carty http://austrolabe.com/2009/06/24/sarkozy-wants-burqa-ban/comment-page-1/#comment-194836 George Carty Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:28:01 +0000 http://austrolabe.com/?p=993#comment-194836 Ariana is right in her criticism of the burqa -- the two main strikes against it are that it deprives its wearer of the use of her arms, as well as impeding her vision. However I suspect that most actual burqa-wearers in France are fetishists rather than Muslimahs, and that Sarkozy said "burqa" when he meant "niqab"... Ariana is right in her criticism of the burqa — the two main strikes against it are that it deprives its wearer of the use of her arms, as well as impeding her vision.

However I suspect that most actual burqa-wearers in France are fetishists rather than Muslimahs, and that Sarkozy said “burqa” when he meant “niqab”…

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